1 00:00:30,113 --> 00:00:33,659 It's 1986 over Alaska, Japan Airlines encountered 2 00:00:33,659 --> 00:00:36,912 something truly inexplicable in the night sky. 3 00:00:37,704 --> 00:00:40,624 These guys were flying from Paris to Tokyo. 4 00:00:40,624 --> 00:00:42,084 They noticed a very bright light. 5 00:00:42,084 --> 00:00:43,669 And it's following them. 6 00:01:02,187 --> 00:01:04,273 The pilot, Kenju Terauchi had described it 7 00:01:04,273 --> 00:01:05,857 as being several times larger 8 00:01:05,857 --> 00:01:09,152 than his airplane, and his airplane had an elevator in it. 9 00:01:10,487 --> 00:01:13,448 It was huge and Captain Terauchi was open about 10 00:01:13,448 --> 00:01:15,701 the fact that he was afraid during this event. 11 00:01:16,994 --> 00:01:20,622 But the Japanese Airline incident was hardly unique. 12 00:01:24,001 --> 00:01:26,712 We just had something go right over the top of us. 13 00:01:26,712 --> 00:01:27,879 It's a definite UFO or 14 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:29,298 something like that. 15 00:01:29,298 --> 00:01:32,050 Incidences like this was much more widespread 16 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:33,468 than anybody realized. 17 00:01:33,468 --> 00:01:34,928 I have no idea what that is. 18 00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:36,388 It just flew right over me. 19 00:01:36,388 --> 00:01:37,806 The length is unbelievable. 20 00:01:37,806 --> 00:01:39,516 Looks like a... 21 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:41,143 UFO. 22 00:01:41,602 --> 00:01:45,230 UFOs definitely represented an aviation safety hazard. 23 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:47,816 There were many cases documented that showed that. 24 00:01:47,816 --> 00:01:51,653 And yet, the government didn't seem to care. 25 00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:54,489 In tonight's special report, 26 00:01:54,489 --> 00:01:56,366 Mary Murphy finds that while the US government has 27 00:01:56,366 --> 00:01:58,076 closed its eyes on the matter. 28 00:01:58,076 --> 00:02:01,121 The public hasn't stopped seeing or believing. 29 00:02:01,538 --> 00:02:03,290 The U.S. Government closed its 30 00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:06,668 formal study of UFOs in late 1969. 31 00:02:07,127 --> 00:02:10,297 The cases that required investigation, 32 00:02:10,297 --> 00:02:12,049 none of that went away. 33 00:02:12,049 --> 00:02:14,551 And so people stepped in to fill that void. 34 00:02:14,551 --> 00:02:16,053 UFO Reporting Center... 35 00:02:16,053 --> 00:02:17,554 We got a call 36 00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:21,516 he saw five distinct lights in a triangular pattern. 37 00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:25,729 Thankfully these events were recorded by civilian researchers. 38 00:02:25,729 --> 00:02:27,856 It showed that the phenomenon was continuing and 39 00:02:27,856 --> 00:02:30,817 it was extensive, that it was widespread. 40 00:02:30,817 --> 00:02:32,402 I mean look what these people are saying, 41 00:02:32,402 --> 00:02:33,987 look what they've documented. 42 00:02:33,987 --> 00:02:37,282 This is real, and it's a safety hazard. 43 00:02:39,743 --> 00:02:41,495 We get reports every night. 44 00:02:41,495 --> 00:02:42,704 I don't know what the hell it is. 45 00:02:45,207 --> 00:02:47,125 I'd like to report a UFO. 46 00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:06,853 UFOlogy today is in the state I would say chemistry was 47 00:03:06,853 --> 00:03:09,231 when chemistry was alchemy. 48 00:03:09,231 --> 00:03:14,736 A mixture of superstition, wild ideas, unproved claims. 49 00:03:14,736 --> 00:03:16,488 And yet out of that whole mess, 50 00:03:16,488 --> 00:03:20,909 finally the very first class science of chemistry evolved. 51 00:03:21,827 --> 00:03:26,581 What we need in UFOlogy is to make it professional. 52 00:03:26,581 --> 00:03:28,834 J. Allen Hynek was a great advocate 53 00:03:28,834 --> 00:03:32,003 for civilians to be researching UFOs. 54 00:03:32,003 --> 00:03:35,465 He felt that the subject deserved scientific scrutiny. 55 00:03:36,007 --> 00:03:39,594 Doctor Hynek's been studying UFOs for 30 years. 56 00:03:39,594 --> 00:03:44,057 His files contained unexplained sightings from 140 countries. 57 00:03:44,349 --> 00:03:48,103 After Hynek died in 1986, his work was carried on by 58 00:03:48,103 --> 00:03:51,606 a handful of national UFO research groups. 59 00:03:51,606 --> 00:03:54,067 Even though the government wasn't paying attention, 60 00:03:54,067 --> 00:03:56,153 the civilians were. 61 00:03:56,153 --> 00:03:58,113 Phil Imbrogno of Greenwich, Connecticut 62 00:03:58,113 --> 00:04:01,450 has recorded more than 300 hours of conversations 63 00:04:01,450 --> 00:04:04,286 with people who have reported UFO sightings. 64 00:04:04,286 --> 00:04:07,289 Larry Faucet, a police officer in Coventry, Connecticut. 65 00:04:07,289 --> 00:04:11,084 He helped establish Citizens Against UFO Secrecy. 66 00:04:11,376 --> 00:04:13,420 UFO reporting center... 67 00:04:13,420 --> 00:04:15,755 I have never been a believer of UFOs in my entire life, 68 00:04:15,755 --> 00:04:18,383 and I've just seen a minimum of 9:00 this morning 69 00:04:18,383 --> 00:04:22,429 with my own eyes and, I mean, I am a believer! 70 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:27,809 My goal in writing about UFOs has been mainly to 71 00:04:27,809 --> 00:04:30,687 bring information forward to the public. 72 00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:35,609 But, beyond that, it's to motivate the official world to pay attention. 73 00:04:36,443 --> 00:04:39,237 Once I realized that there was enough data to show that these 74 00:04:39,237 --> 00:04:42,532 things are real and the possibility that there are 75 00:04:42,532 --> 00:04:45,285 other civilizations visiting us here, 76 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:46,912 I was just hooked. 77 00:04:46,912 --> 00:04:49,372 And I realized that I needed information that could be 78 00:04:49,372 --> 00:04:53,585 verified and documented and cases that were irrefutable. 79 00:04:53,585 --> 00:04:57,088 I turned to the most credible civilian researchers 80 00:04:57,088 --> 00:04:59,508 because they were the ones doing the work. 81 00:04:59,883 --> 00:05:04,304 The National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, NARCAP, 82 00:05:04,304 --> 00:05:06,556 was founded by Doctor Richard Haines who 83 00:05:06,556 --> 00:05:09,309 was a former chief scientist for NASA. 84 00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:10,810 Hey Dick, can you hear me? 85 00:05:10,810 --> 00:05:12,187 I sure can. 86 00:05:12,187 --> 00:05:13,438 Sure is good to see you! 87 00:05:13,438 --> 00:05:15,190 What is your reflection on, you know, 88 00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:16,358 looking back at NARCAP, like, 89 00:05:16,358 --> 00:05:18,318 why you started it? 90 00:05:18,318 --> 00:05:22,239 Well, I'd spend quite a number of years, as a hobby, uh 91 00:05:22,239 --> 00:05:24,032 studying this phenomenon. 92 00:05:24,032 --> 00:05:27,702 And I finally came to the understanding that Ufology, 93 00:05:27,702 --> 00:05:30,956 the study of UFOs or UAPs these days, 94 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:35,752 is not gonna progress until there's some practical benefit from it. 95 00:05:35,752 --> 00:05:41,174 And so, I came up with this ide let's look at aviation safety. 96 00:05:43,009 --> 00:05:47,264 The FAA did not want to receive any reports from any of 97 00:05:47,264 --> 00:05:49,724 their personnel about UFO events. 98 00:05:49,724 --> 00:05:52,936 It was actually written in their manual that if anyone saw 99 00:05:52,936 --> 00:05:56,690 a UFO they were to report it to a civilian group. 100 00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:01,611 NARCAP is a reporting center for pilots and 101 00:06:01,611 --> 00:06:04,781 air traffic controllers who would like to make a report of 102 00:06:04,781 --> 00:06:08,535 their sightings in a completely confidential manner. 103 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,622 We are looking carefully at events that are happening in 104 00:06:12,622 --> 00:06:17,294 our skies, all the time, where flight safety could be impacted. 105 00:06:17,294 --> 00:06:20,046 Our objective is to make flying safer. 106 00:06:21,047 --> 00:06:22,674 The work I did with NARCAP, 107 00:06:22,674 --> 00:06:25,969 and really getting familiar with the aviation safety hazards, 108 00:06:25,969 --> 00:06:28,847 I became more focused on that as an important component 109 00:06:28,847 --> 00:06:31,266 of this whole issue. 110 00:06:31,266 --> 00:06:36,146 The second story that I ever published on UFOs in 2001 was 111 00:06:36,146 --> 00:06:41,568 based on a 100-page report that NARCAP produced. 112 00:06:41,568 --> 00:06:44,738 There were cases where the pilot would have to make a very fast 113 00:06:44,738 --> 00:06:48,658 turn or he'd have to dive to avoid hitting a UFO. 114 00:06:48,658 --> 00:06:51,911 Cases where passengers were actually injured by maneuvers 115 00:06:51,911 --> 00:06:54,205 the airplane had to make. 116 00:06:54,205 --> 00:06:57,751 If you have commercial pilots that are somehow in danger. 117 00:06:57,751 --> 00:07:00,337 I just thought as a journalist this is really important, 118 00:07:00,337 --> 00:07:03,048 I mean, how could the aviation world ignore this? 119 00:07:04,466 --> 00:07:07,302 One of the most fascinating cases in the report was 120 00:07:07,302 --> 00:07:11,014 the Japan Airlines case, 1986. 121 00:07:11,014 --> 00:07:12,474 Spinner 1628 heavy, roger sir. 122 00:07:19,522 --> 00:07:21,483 What was really compelling about this case is 123 00:07:21,483 --> 00:07:22,942 that you've got the radar data, 124 00:07:22,942 --> 00:07:25,403 and then you've got the testimony of the pilot, 125 00:07:25,403 --> 00:07:27,155 talking to ground control. 126 00:07:33,370 --> 00:07:36,665 There are these amazing tapes in Richard Haines' archive 127 00:07:36,665 --> 00:07:38,375 of calls he made. 128 00:07:38,375 --> 00:07:42,045 And the pilots will give him detailed accounts of what they saw. 129 00:07:43,630 --> 00:07:46,091 One of the recordings was with Captain Terauchi from 130 00:07:46,091 --> 00:07:47,967 the Japan Airlines case. 131 00:08:05,485 --> 00:08:07,987 As they're approaching Anchorage, 132 00:08:07,987 --> 00:08:10,281 they again radio the FAA. 133 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:13,284 And they had the plane do a couple of turns 134 00:08:13,284 --> 00:08:16,454 to see if the object continues to follow it. 135 00:08:23,878 --> 00:08:26,673 Captain Terauchi was very surprised to realize 136 00:08:26,673 --> 00:08:30,719 that the object was still beside him throughout that turn. 137 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:39,185 How is it able to do that? 138 00:08:39,185 --> 00:08:41,104 Why would it do that? 139 00:08:41,438 --> 00:08:45,567 The phenomenon acts with what I would call curiosity. 140 00:08:45,567 --> 00:08:48,153 To me, that's, that's intelligence. 141 00:08:48,153 --> 00:08:52,240 It raises some fundamental questions about the nature of the phenomenon. 142 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,578 Would it constitute a threat to flight safety? 143 00:08:56,578 --> 00:08:58,246 And the answer is clearly... 144 00:08:58,246 --> 00:09:00,081 Yes. 145 00:09:05,962 --> 00:09:08,006 The Japan Airlines event was 146 00:09:08,006 --> 00:09:11,426 fairly lengthy as far as UFO sightings go. 147 00:09:11,426 --> 00:09:14,971 They watched it for perhaps a half hour or more. 148 00:09:14,971 --> 00:09:17,849 It moved in different positions around the aircraft. 149 00:09:17,849 --> 00:09:20,643 Eventually, as they descended and approached the airport, 150 00:09:20,643 --> 00:09:22,187 it disappeared. 151 00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:25,523 But, the real import of the case is 152 00:09:25,523 --> 00:09:27,358 what happens after the sighting. 153 00:09:28,359 --> 00:09:31,070 Captain Terauchi, spoke to the American press 154 00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:32,864 about this event. 155 00:09:32,864 --> 00:09:36,493 And Japan Airlines, took him off the job for like a year. 156 00:09:36,493 --> 00:09:39,078 It just shows that professional pilots, 157 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,165 cannot report an actual event that happened, 158 00:09:42,165 --> 00:09:44,542 that might even be a hazard to their aircraft, 159 00:09:44,542 --> 00:09:46,628 without facing repercussions. 160 00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:49,214 Now on the phone with us from Anchorage is 161 00:09:49,214 --> 00:09:51,549 Paul Stueke who is public affairs officer 162 00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:54,886 for the FAA in the Alaska Region. 163 00:09:54,886 --> 00:09:58,264 What, Paul, does the FAA say this is? 164 00:09:58,264 --> 00:10:02,560 Well, we've got some possible evidence of confirmation, 165 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,688 but it is not real strong and the military is, 166 00:10:05,688 --> 00:10:08,942 is totally unable to confirm whether this object was real by 167 00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:12,445 its radar and neither are we actually. 168 00:10:12,779 --> 00:10:16,533 Publicly, the FAA said that the object on radar was 169 00:10:16,533 --> 00:10:20,620 an unexplained split image of the Japanese 747 170 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:22,914 and not a separate object. 171 00:10:22,914 --> 00:10:25,166 But there was more going on with this case than 172 00:10:25,166 --> 00:10:27,544 what the FAA had to say publicly. 173 00:10:28,503 --> 00:10:31,339 When John Callahan, who was the head of accidents and 174 00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:34,551 investigations at FAA, first heard about this event, 175 00:10:34,551 --> 00:10:38,513 he ordered that all the data be sent to him immediately on this case. 176 00:10:39,347 --> 00:10:41,057 I said to the, uh, software people, 177 00:10:41,057 --> 00:10:43,601 I want a briefing in the, uh, the next room. 178 00:10:43,601 --> 00:10:48,022 I want to see on a chart, uh, every place where the, uh, 179 00:10:48,022 --> 00:10:51,401 Japanese guy was, and I want to see all the targets around him. 180 00:10:51,401 --> 00:10:55,238 I, uh, watched on radar, I took a video tape of it and 181 00:10:55,238 --> 00:10:57,615 the next day came back to Washington headquarters. 182 00:10:58,533 --> 00:11:00,160 This is where it first starts. 183 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,495 It starts at 19 after the hour. 184 00:11:03,288 --> 00:11:05,331 You see that little dot? 185 00:11:05,331 --> 00:11:07,375 That's the UFO. 186 00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:11,004 He studied all this data, and then, 187 00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:13,339 according to Callahan, he was called to a meeting 188 00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,216 at the Washington headquarters. 189 00:11:15,216 --> 00:11:18,970 And that meeting involved a team of representatives 190 00:11:18,970 --> 00:11:20,513 from the White House. 191 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:22,932 It included CIA representatives. 192 00:11:23,433 --> 00:11:25,143 That's strange. 193 00:11:25,143 --> 00:11:27,979 These things are not typically investigated by 194 00:11:27,979 --> 00:11:31,816 the FBI, not the CIA. 195 00:11:31,816 --> 00:11:33,151 I played the tapes for 'em, 196 00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:34,694 I show 'em all the paperwork we got. 197 00:11:34,694 --> 00:11:36,362 I give them the whole tale. 198 00:11:36,362 --> 00:11:38,239 And they were all excited about it. 199 00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:41,534 So, I'm, I'm standing next to this, uh, this little guy, 200 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:47,290 and he says, "Okay, we were never here. 201 00:11:47,874 --> 00:11:50,835 We're confiscating all this data and 202 00:11:50,835 --> 00:11:52,837 you're all sworn to secrecy." 203 00:11:52,837 --> 00:11:55,298 So I said, "What do you think it is?" 204 00:11:55,298 --> 00:11:57,467 I'm still thinking it's the stealth bomber. 205 00:11:57,467 --> 00:11:59,844 He says, "Well, it's a UFO." 206 00:12:01,346 --> 00:12:04,515 So, the US Government doesn't take UFOs seriously and 207 00:12:04,515 --> 00:12:06,517 yet they do this? 208 00:12:06,517 --> 00:12:08,269 So what's going on here? 209 00:12:08,269 --> 00:12:11,022 Well, of course, we don't know because they disappeared into 210 00:12:11,022 --> 00:12:13,441 the black maw of the government. 211 00:12:15,068 --> 00:12:18,571 My story about pilot encounters with UFOs got a lot 212 00:12:18,571 --> 00:12:21,574 of play and it was picked up all across the country. 213 00:12:21,574 --> 00:12:25,620 But the culture as a whole didn't really take UFOs seriously. 214 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:27,705 It was still considered fringe. 215 00:12:27,705 --> 00:12:32,001 And I, I felt kind of determined to fight that. 216 00:12:34,587 --> 00:12:36,798 Have you ever wondered why there wasn't more coverage 217 00:12:36,798 --> 00:12:40,051 in the mainstream media about the subject of UFOs? 218 00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:43,179 We are very pleased today to have an investigative journalist 219 00:12:43,179 --> 00:12:46,307 who has pushed through that barrier, Leslie Kean. 220 00:12:46,307 --> 00:12:47,976 Thank you so much for joining us! 221 00:12:47,976 --> 00:12:50,103 When I started out reporting on UFOs. 222 00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:53,231 I mean I felt like I was risking my career as a journalist, 223 00:12:53,231 --> 00:12:55,191 I did feel that way. 224 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:56,985 I was sort of an anomaly. 225 00:12:56,985 --> 00:13:00,363 I mean, there was nobody doing this in the mainstream. 226 00:13:01,572 --> 00:13:04,284 I was really nervous about being ridiculed because 227 00:13:04,284 --> 00:13:07,328 the attitudes of people were mainly that it was a joke. 228 00:13:07,328 --> 00:13:10,748 If I would go to a party and people said, "What do you do?" 229 00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:13,751 I would have to say, "Well, I'm a journalist," and then I... 230 00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:16,129 The next question was always, "Well, what do you write about?" 231 00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:17,797 And I was dreading that question; 232 00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:21,676 I did not want to have to say what I wrote about 233 00:13:21,676 --> 00:13:23,553 because it was embarrassing. 234 00:13:23,553 --> 00:13:26,723 But the fact that there was so much opposition to it, 235 00:13:26,723 --> 00:13:30,643 the fact that it was ridiculed actually kind of fueled my fire. 236 00:13:30,643 --> 00:13:35,440 And I felt so clear that there was something to it that I just 237 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,942 was willing to take that risk. 238 00:13:39,068 --> 00:13:41,988 And then I realized that there were others who are out there 239 00:13:41,988 --> 00:13:45,908 researching this, taking it out of the fringe who took it 240 00:13:45,908 --> 00:13:48,911 upon themselves to do what the government wasn't doing, 241 00:13:48,911 --> 00:13:51,622 which was to investigate cases. 242 00:13:52,832 --> 00:13:54,876 Your new documentary, James, I Know What I Saw, 243 00:13:54,876 --> 00:13:57,754 assembles accounts from various UFO witnesses 244 00:13:57,754 --> 00:13:59,130 from around the world. 245 00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:01,382 What do you believe James? 246 00:14:01,382 --> 00:14:04,218 I believe that there are structured craft of 247 00:14:04,218 --> 00:14:07,013 unknown origin whizzing around in our airspace whose 248 00:14:07,013 --> 00:14:08,056 flight characteristics are 249 00:14:08,056 --> 00:14:10,600 so beyond anything we've had. 250 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,685 My name is James Fox. 251 00:14:12,685 --> 00:14:17,065 I have been working on UFO films, for, 252 00:14:17,065 --> 00:14:19,025 coming up on my third decade. 253 00:14:19,025 --> 00:14:23,404 I was never out to prove that ET has landed. 254 00:14:23,404 --> 00:14:27,784 My primary objective is to say there is some really 255 00:14:27,784 --> 00:14:31,913 compelling evidence that needs further investigation. 256 00:14:32,538 --> 00:14:36,375 I stuck with it despite the level of ridicule for decades 257 00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:39,670 because I had gone to locations, I'd met with the witnesses, 258 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:42,632 I'd looked up the documents from government files because 259 00:14:42,632 --> 00:14:45,093 I wanted to create a body of evidence that I could present to 260 00:14:45,093 --> 00:14:48,471 mainstream and say, "Look. There's something to it." 261 00:14:49,514 --> 00:14:53,476 Over the years, James Fox and I had a kind of cooperative relationship, 262 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:55,812 and we shared a frustration about the lack of 263 00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:59,690 government investigation, the lack of transparency, 264 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:03,111 this sort of blasé attitude that it didn't matter. 265 00:15:03,111 --> 00:15:06,197 James had experienced this frustration for a long time in 266 00:15:06,197 --> 00:15:08,241 so many cases that he investigated, 267 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:11,869 one of them being the Phoenix Lights of 1997. 268 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:16,749 We're visitin with James Fox filmmaker in 269 00:15:16,749 --> 00:15:20,962 town doing research on the, the UFOs and interviews, uh... 270 00:15:20,962 --> 00:15:24,715 What makes the Phoenix Lights UFO case 271 00:15:24,715 --> 00:15:29,220 so compelling is the sheer volume of eyewitness testimony. 272 00:15:29,595 --> 00:15:32,974 Hundreds of witnesses saw something gliding over 273 00:15:32,974 --> 00:15:36,018 the state of Arizona for over an hour and a half. 274 00:15:36,018 --> 00:15:40,022 It was Thursday night, March 13th 1997. 275 00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:42,900 Nice calm evening, about 8:30. 276 00:15:44,068 --> 00:15:46,571 My daughter, Monica, came running in the house and 277 00:15:46,571 --> 00:15:48,739 said you've gotta come outside. 278 00:15:49,115 --> 00:15:54,245 As I closed both windows and I looked to the north, 279 00:15:54,245 --> 00:15:58,541 I saw a large black craft coming towards us. 280 00:15:58,541 --> 00:16:00,001 And I told my wife at that time that 281 00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:02,461 son of a bitch is a mile long. 282 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,007 I was working on a film at the time on UFOs, 283 00:16:06,007 --> 00:16:09,010 and so I saw the progression of this whole story unfold. 284 00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:10,636 'Cause it barely missed that mountain! 285 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:11,679 - Really? - Yeah. 286 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,890 Came floating over that mountain. 287 00:16:13,890 --> 00:16:16,434 The witnesses described this boomerang shaped object 288 00:16:16,434 --> 00:16:19,312 that was over a mile across from wing tip to wing tip. 289 00:16:19,312 --> 00:16:22,023 It's coming across the sky and as it's moving. 290 00:16:22,023 --> 00:16:24,984 It's blocking and unblocking the stars. 291 00:16:24,984 --> 00:16:26,777 There's actually a shape. 292 00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:28,487 I mean, we were just in awe of it. 293 00:16:28,487 --> 00:16:30,364 I mean, no fear or anything just kind of like, 294 00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:32,742 "Oh, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen." 295 00:16:32,742 --> 00:16:36,621 I thought I was going to pass out because I stopped breathing. 296 00:16:36,621 --> 00:16:39,373 I was so enthralled and looking at this thing. 297 00:16:40,499 --> 00:16:42,084 The Phoenix lights event in March 298 00:16:42,084 --> 00:16:44,503 is being talked about now all over the world. 299 00:16:44,503 --> 00:16:46,964 The buzz is very big in the desert southwest after 300 00:16:46,964 --> 00:16:50,927 some weird happenings in the skies over Phoenix recently 301 00:16:51,219 --> 00:16:54,764 The objects in the sky over Arizona were probably seen 302 00:16:54,764 --> 00:16:58,809 by more witnesses than any other single UFO event 303 00:16:58,809 --> 00:17:01,020 in American history... 304 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:03,439 So many people wanted answers, 305 00:17:03,439 --> 00:17:05,816 that the governor had to respond. 306 00:17:06,484 --> 00:17:10,029 The governor had said he was gonna provide answers for people. 307 00:17:10,029 --> 00:17:12,573 They built up this hope and expectation, 308 00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:14,033 "There's been an investigation and 309 00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:15,701 we're gonna get something here." 310 00:17:15,701 --> 00:17:18,746 I believe that a serious offense for anyone, human, 311 00:17:18,746 --> 00:17:22,875 space alien or otherwise to engage in mysterious activity 312 00:17:22,875 --> 00:17:24,752 in our nighttime skies. 313 00:17:24,752 --> 00:17:27,505 That is why I will personally ask that the perpetrator be 314 00:17:27,505 --> 00:17:29,840 prosecuted to the fullest for the havoc 315 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,968 wrought on our entire community. 316 00:17:31,968 --> 00:17:35,054 Don't get him too close to me, please, it's, you know... 317 00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:41,060 This just goes to show that you guys are entirely too serious. 318 00:17:43,854 --> 00:17:46,524 He had one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit and 319 00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:48,401 he made a mockery of the whole thing. 320 00:17:48,401 --> 00:17:50,111 And I was in touch with the witnesses, 321 00:17:50,111 --> 00:17:51,904 and they were just furious. 322 00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:54,115 Thank you! Thank you! 323 00:17:55,783 --> 00:17:59,787 That case is, I think, pretty much representative of 324 00:17:59,787 --> 00:18:02,999 how the US government treats the phenomenon. 325 00:18:03,291 --> 00:18:04,792 Even this mass sighting, 326 00:18:04,792 --> 00:18:06,586 which involved hundreds of witnesses, 327 00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:09,714 and lots of concern in the state of Arizona, 328 00:18:09,714 --> 00:18:14,260 even that was not enough to get government involvement 329 00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:16,762 and to get government accountability. 330 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:26,564 The lack of transparency within the American government 331 00:18:26,564 --> 00:18:29,025 on this topic was so frustrating. 332 00:18:29,025 --> 00:18:32,570 But James and I have both discovered that there are other 333 00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:35,448 countries that really take this seriously. 334 00:18:35,698 --> 00:18:37,033 As a filmmaker, 335 00:18:37,033 --> 00:18:39,827 I was able to have a level of participation from 336 00:18:39,827 --> 00:18:43,372 foreign governments and military personnel that 337 00:18:43,372 --> 00:18:45,666 I didn't see in the United States. 338 00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:49,503 James and I went to France together to the headquarters of 339 00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:52,173 the French agency that studies UFOs, 340 00:18:52,173 --> 00:18:55,885 situated within the equivalent of NASA in France, 341 00:18:55,885 --> 00:18:58,137 in the Space Studies Center. 342 00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:00,598 France sees it as a scientific problem. 343 00:19:00,598 --> 00:19:04,268 They had access to specialists from all over the country, 344 00:19:04,268 --> 00:19:05,895 who would contribute to investigations. 345 00:19:05,895 --> 00:19:07,897 So if they needed a weather specialist 346 00:19:07,897 --> 00:19:09,982 or a soil expert, 347 00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:12,735 psychologists who would interview the witnesses, 348 00:19:12,735 --> 00:19:15,738 all these different areas of expertise that all have a role 349 00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:17,907 to play in an investigation. 350 00:19:17,907 --> 00:19:21,202 I'd meet with military people in China and in Russia 351 00:19:21,202 --> 00:19:24,580 and in Africa and Australia and South America... 352 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:27,208 There were similar things happening all around the world. 353 00:19:28,709 --> 00:19:31,837 There was a very compelling incident that happened in Tehran, Iran 354 00:19:31,837 --> 00:19:36,801 in 1976 that involved the pilot trying to shoot down a UFO. 355 00:19:36,801 --> 00:19:39,470 The pilot's name was Parvis Jafari, 356 00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:42,765 and he described this whole cat and mouse thing with this object. 357 00:19:42,765 --> 00:19:46,477 He said it could literally go from this point in the sky to 358 00:19:46,477 --> 00:19:49,105 this point in the sky in the blink of an eye. 359 00:19:49,105 --> 00:19:50,523 And he said that was miles. 360 00:19:50,523 --> 00:19:55,152 I was looking here at about 70 miles out and 361 00:19:55,152 --> 00:19:59,156 he jumped all of a sudden ten degrees to my right. 362 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:01,742 And I was wondering what is it? 363 00:20:01,742 --> 00:20:04,704 And at one point, I think he felt threatened 364 00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:06,789 and decided to shoot it. 365 00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:09,083 That turned out to be not such a good idea. 366 00:20:09,083 --> 00:20:11,085 His whole control panel froze up. 367 00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:13,921 He was thinking he might have to eject from the airplane. 368 00:20:22,096 --> 00:20:23,931 Jafari made a very important contribution by 369 00:20:23,931 --> 00:20:25,516 speaking out about this. 370 00:20:25,516 --> 00:20:27,810 And in Iran none of it was kept secret. 371 00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:30,312 It was a big event in that country. 372 00:20:31,355 --> 00:20:34,650 Countries in South America, also took reports from pilots 373 00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,569 a lot more seriously. 374 00:20:36,569 --> 00:20:39,905 The government of Chile sees it as mainly an aviation issue. 375 00:20:49,957 --> 00:20:52,835 Costa Rica also does not keep things secret. 376 00:20:52,835 --> 00:20:54,462 They had what I think may be 377 00:20:54,462 --> 00:20:57,339 the best photograph of a UFO ever released. 378 00:20:57,339 --> 00:21:00,342 That was taken by a government mapping plane. 379 00:21:00,342 --> 00:21:02,052 That photograph was made public. 380 00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:03,929 It was studied by scientists. 381 00:21:03,929 --> 00:21:06,432 We don't know what our government actually possesses 382 00:21:06,432 --> 00:21:08,601 in terms of photographs or videos, 383 00:21:08,601 --> 00:21:11,061 because they've been kept classified. 384 00:21:11,061 --> 00:21:15,316 In America, UFOs became really prevalent during the Cold War. 385 00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:18,569 And during the Cold War we did not want to disclose anything. 386 00:21:18,569 --> 00:21:21,822 So that's sort of when we got in the groove of keeping it secret. 387 00:21:21,822 --> 00:21:24,450 It just sort of became ingrained in our system 388 00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:26,911 to see this as a national security issue which 389 00:21:26,911 --> 00:21:29,205 therefore needs to be classified. 390 00:21:29,788 --> 00:21:31,248 Some of these other governments, 391 00:21:31,248 --> 00:21:35,002 they look at it as an aviation safety problem, perhaps, 392 00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:37,213 or a scientific problem. 393 00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:40,257 To me, this is the way things should be done. 394 00:21:42,927 --> 00:21:46,013 After returning from these explorations of other countries, 395 00:21:46,013 --> 00:21:50,142 I brought that information to a very important government insider, 396 00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:55,147 who I'd met in 2001, who was all about government transparency. 397 00:21:56,315 --> 00:21:58,317 John Podesta was President Clinton's 398 00:21:58,317 --> 00:21:59,818 Chief of Staff. 399 00:21:59,818 --> 00:22:03,280 And under Clinton he was partly responsible for the release 400 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,784 of many, many documents through the Freedom of Information Act. 401 00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:08,577 This has been really great, I appreciate your... 402 00:22:08,577 --> 00:22:11,997 I came into this really as an advocate of open government, 403 00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:16,043 more than I had thought a lot about UFOs or UAPs. 404 00:22:16,043 --> 00:22:19,213 They were a curiosity for me really, 405 00:22:19,213 --> 00:22:24,176 but the two interests kind of married in 2001 406 00:22:24,176 --> 00:22:26,053 when I met Leslie Kean. 407 00:22:26,053 --> 00:22:29,306 Uh, I think it's time to open the books on the question of, 408 00:22:29,306 --> 00:22:33,310 of government investigations of, of UFOs. 409 00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:38,148 It's time to find out what, what the truth really is that's out there. 410 00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:43,362 I think there has been fear that if the government ever 411 00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:47,116 tipped their hand to say, "Well, we have some phenomena 412 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:51,036 and we don't know what it is," the public would just freak out. 413 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:54,790 And, I think quite the contrary, 414 00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:58,294 I think the, the public can handle the truth. 415 00:22:58,294 --> 00:23:00,045 I was wondering if you'd like to see a photograph... 416 00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:01,672 I would go to these countries and then I, 417 00:23:01,672 --> 00:23:05,009 I put together information about how these agencies worked into 418 00:23:05,009 --> 00:23:08,220 a dossier and I gave it to John Podesta. 419 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,180 You know, until the United States government joins 420 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:12,433 and has their own official agency, 421 00:23:12,433 --> 00:23:13,601 like the French, like the British, 422 00:23:13,601 --> 00:23:15,060 like the people in Chile, 423 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,688 people in Peru, it kind of holds back the whole world. 424 00:23:17,688 --> 00:23:21,900 In that dossier were two letters to John Podesta, 425 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:24,069 specifically to him, one written by the head of 426 00:23:24,069 --> 00:23:26,822 the Chilean government agency studying UFOs and 427 00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:29,158 one written by the head of the French agency 428 00:23:29,158 --> 00:23:31,285 explaining why they thought that it was 429 00:23:31,285 --> 00:23:33,746 absolutely crucial that the United States be involved if 430 00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:35,956 we're gonna make any progress with this. 431 00:23:36,457 --> 00:23:39,460 I think it's important for investigative journalists 432 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:42,046 like Leslie Kean to keep pressing for answers. 433 00:23:42,046 --> 00:23:44,715 So, I put my credibility on the line. 434 00:23:44,715 --> 00:23:48,594 And I supported her efforts to open this space for politicians 435 00:23:48,594 --> 00:23:52,056 to say, "It may be a question of national security. 436 00:23:52,056 --> 00:23:55,851 It is a question of aviation safety." 437 00:23:56,268 --> 00:23:59,104 It seemed like what we really needed was some kind of 438 00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:03,233 major UFO event, a major case with lots of data, 439 00:24:03,233 --> 00:24:06,320 with great witnesses, that would galvanize the country, 440 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,863 that would be in the media, 441 00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:10,324 and that would force government involvement. 442 00:24:26,382 --> 00:24:29,593 November 7th, 2006. 443 00:24:30,761 --> 00:24:33,472 Something happened over O'Hare Airport. 444 00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:36,350 An event that once again, 445 00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:39,186 suggests a problem with aviation safety. 446 00:24:39,186 --> 00:24:42,898 This time over one of the country's busiest airports. 447 00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:46,986 You had workers on the tarmac and the pilots. 448 00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:50,197 And these guys look up at around 1,000 feet, 449 00:24:50,197 --> 00:24:54,034 they see a disk shaped object above them. 450 00:25:00,124 --> 00:25:01,166 And you don't believe this was 451 00:25:01,166 --> 00:25:02,626 possibly your imagination? 452 00:25:02,626 --> 00:25:04,837 It was definitely not my imagination. 453 00:25:04,837 --> 00:25:07,172 Joe was a mechanic for United Airlines. 454 00:25:07,172 --> 00:25:09,508 While taxiing a jumbo jet to the hangar, 455 00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:11,051 he and another mechanic... 456 00:25:11,051 --> 00:25:14,638 Noticed an object up in the sky sitting 457 00:25:14,638 --> 00:25:16,932 above the terminal complex. 458 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,145 It had a metallic grayish appearance to it. 459 00:25:21,145 --> 00:25:25,399 It appeared to be 30 to 40 feet in diameter. 460 00:25:25,399 --> 00:25:26,692 It's not moving at all. 461 00:25:26,692 --> 00:25:28,861 I mean there's no motion. 462 00:25:28,861 --> 00:25:32,823 And this goes on for a few minutes until suddenly 463 00:25:32,823 --> 00:25:36,243 the object just goes straight up. 464 00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:39,830 And in doing so, burns a hole through the clouds. 465 00:25:50,758 --> 00:25:52,676 My name is John Hilkevitch. 466 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:54,678 I was a transportation reporter at Chicago Tribune 467 00:25:54,678 --> 00:25:56,889 for roughly 18 years. 468 00:25:56,889 --> 00:25:58,807 A few days after the alleged sighting, 469 00:25:58,807 --> 00:26:00,976 I got a phone call from an official with 470 00:26:00,976 --> 00:26:03,562 the National UFO Reporting Center. 471 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:06,565 And I think he assumed that I had heard about this and 472 00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,151 he wanted to know was I working on a story? 473 00:26:09,151 --> 00:26:11,779 I cover transportation, uh. 474 00:26:11,779 --> 00:26:14,698 UFO was not part of the beat at all. 475 00:26:14,698 --> 00:26:17,868 So, you know, I had my healthy reporter's skepticism 476 00:26:17,868 --> 00:26:20,662 about this, but this is highly restricted airspace. 477 00:26:20,662 --> 00:26:23,040 You don't want something up there that doesn't belong there. 478 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,709 So, I took that information and contacted 479 00:26:25,709 --> 00:26:28,295 the FAA and United Airlines and 480 00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:32,090 they both denied any knowledge of this alleged sighting. 481 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:34,009 They were sort of amused by it, like, 482 00:26:34,009 --> 00:26:35,511 "Are you okay, John?" 483 00:26:35,511 --> 00:26:37,638 You know, "You're, you're asking these weird questions." 484 00:26:38,388 --> 00:26:41,016 I spent the next couple of weeks interviewing as many people as 485 00:26:41,016 --> 00:26:43,519 I could about the sighting. 486 00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:46,396 These were all trained aviation professionals. 487 00:26:46,396 --> 00:26:48,524 Pilots who were taxiing on the ground, 488 00:26:48,524 --> 00:26:50,734 ramp workers who were pushing back planes. 489 00:26:50,734 --> 00:26:54,363 Given the pushback from the FAA, I submitted a FOIA request for 490 00:26:54,363 --> 00:26:57,825 the logs at O'Hare tower for that day, November 7th. 491 00:27:09,837 --> 00:27:11,672 When I heard the recordings, 492 00:27:11,672 --> 00:27:14,091 it was clear that this alleged sighting was logged in O'Hare tower, 493 00:27:14,091 --> 00:27:16,426 that United Airlines was told about this 494 00:27:16,426 --> 00:27:18,512 by numerous employees. 495 00:27:18,512 --> 00:27:21,390 There was just an abundance of radio chatter between 496 00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:24,685 O'Hare tower and various people on the airfield. 497 00:27:38,782 --> 00:27:41,660 United, uh, despite their, uh, insistence to 498 00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:43,620 me that they had no knowledge of this and 499 00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:45,956 they took no action was first to backtrack, 500 00:27:45,956 --> 00:27:48,417 to say that, "Yes, they had received reports of this." 501 00:27:48,417 --> 00:27:51,420 And then the FAA said that upon further review, 502 00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:54,965 "Yes, they had received calls saying that something was up there." 503 00:27:54,965 --> 00:27:56,842 Is it standard that the FAA, 504 00:27:56,842 --> 00:27:58,260 if you ask them a straightforward question, 505 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:00,345 would lie essentially? 506 00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:01,555 Well, I mean, there was, 507 00:28:01,555 --> 00:28:02,890 there's nothing standard about this story. 508 00:28:05,684 --> 00:28:07,477 This story ran on page one of the Chicago Tribune on 509 00:28:07,477 --> 00:28:09,438 January 1st, 2007. 510 00:28:09,438 --> 00:28:12,190 And the reaction to it was unbelievable. 511 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:14,151 John, the response has been, well, 512 00:28:14,151 --> 00:28:16,320 out of this world, hasn't it? 513 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,613 I mean, just the last two days, 514 00:28:17,613 --> 00:28:19,156 this is my email. 515 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:20,824 Several pilots apparently at 516 00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:24,578 Chicago's O'Hare swear they saw one. 517 00:28:24,578 --> 00:28:26,121 A UFO! 518 00:28:26,121 --> 00:28:27,539 And it looked like literally someone had 519 00:28:27,539 --> 00:28:29,416 poked a hole in the clouds. 520 00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:32,628 It got more hits on the Chicago Tribune website than 521 00:28:32,628 --> 00:28:36,006 any story they had ever written in the past. 522 00:28:37,382 --> 00:28:39,801 But there was still a very strong taboo against this so 523 00:28:39,801 --> 00:28:42,763 there were some skeptics that were called on these various 524 00:28:42,763 --> 00:28:44,222 shows who kind of debunked it. 525 00:28:44,222 --> 00:28:45,724 We turn to the chief astronomer 526 00:28:45,724 --> 00:28:46,767 for the Franklin Institute, 527 00:28:46,767 --> 00:28:48,018 Derrick Pitts. 528 00:28:48,018 --> 00:28:49,186 Derrick, thanks for being with us again. 529 00:28:49,186 --> 00:28:51,355 My pleasure, Keith. 530 00:28:51,355 --> 00:28:52,814 All right, let's start with the UFO sighting at O'Hare. 531 00:28:52,814 --> 00:28:55,150 When it's pilots sayingG this do we have to listen? 532 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:56,735 And then what is it they could have seen but 533 00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:58,654 not been able to identify? 534 00:28:58,654 --> 00:29:00,322 Well, that's a really difficult question to answer 535 00:29:00,322 --> 00:29:03,158 because there are all kinds of sky phenomena that could 536 00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,118 have manifested themselves. 537 00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:08,830 But that doesn't necessarily mean they are alien spacecraft. 538 00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:15,003 I was intrigued that so many people had seen this. 539 00:29:15,003 --> 00:29:17,714 But we can't just suggest that here's a spacecraft from 540 00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:20,217 another planet that defies the laws of physics. 541 00:29:20,217 --> 00:29:24,346 So, for me, I go to those things that seem much more likely, 542 00:29:24,346 --> 00:29:27,224 much more reasonable, much more possible. 543 00:29:28,475 --> 00:29:30,268 When I read the Chicago Tribune's story, 544 00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:32,938 I was really shocked by the FAA efforts to try and 545 00:29:32,938 --> 00:29:34,773 explain this away. 546 00:29:35,273 --> 00:29:37,776 First of all, they said it was airport lights 547 00:29:37,776 --> 00:29:39,778 reflecting off the clouds. 548 00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:42,364 And it turned out that the airport lights had not even been 549 00:29:42,364 --> 00:29:44,741 turned on yet when the event occurred. 550 00:29:44,741 --> 00:29:46,535 So, that explanation didn't work. 551 00:29:46,535 --> 00:29:48,412 The FAA adds that the sighting may have 552 00:29:48,412 --> 00:29:50,163 been caused by a weather phenomenon. 553 00:29:50,163 --> 00:29:52,207 The next explanation they provided was that 554 00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:53,959 it was a weather phenomenon. 555 00:29:53,959 --> 00:29:57,045 I knew what that probably meant was this phenomenon called 556 00:29:57,045 --> 00:29:58,922 a hole punch cloud. 557 00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:01,633 It's very rare, where ice crystals fall from 558 00:30:01,633 --> 00:30:03,760 one cloud above to a lower cloud and 559 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,221 they melt a hole in the cloud. 560 00:30:07,597 --> 00:30:10,267 I called a bunch of cloud experts, 561 00:30:10,267 --> 00:30:13,228 asked what the conditions were that would be required 562 00:30:13,228 --> 00:30:15,522 for a hole punch cloud to form. 563 00:30:15,522 --> 00:30:18,734 I learned that the temperature would have to be below freezing, 564 00:30:18,734 --> 00:30:21,069 which it was not at that day at O'Hare. 565 00:30:21,069 --> 00:30:23,196 It was around 50 degrees. 566 00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:26,324 So, I was able to completely dispatch 567 00:30:26,324 --> 00:30:29,911 the FAA's explanation of a weather phenomenon. 568 00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:33,040 For the FAA and the government, 569 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,376 it's just 'come up with something' to make it go away. 570 00:30:36,376 --> 00:30:37,961 No matter how ludicrous it is. 571 00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:40,464 No matter how inaccurate it is. 572 00:30:40,464 --> 00:30:43,050 This was an aviation safety hazard. 573 00:30:43,050 --> 00:30:45,385 This thing was floating over an airport. 574 00:30:45,385 --> 00:30:48,889 It made me feel inspired to really want to do more. 575 00:30:48,889 --> 00:30:51,266 Because this just can't keep going like this. 576 00:30:58,231 --> 00:31:00,942 In 2006, we had that very compelling case that 577 00:31:00,942 --> 00:31:03,153 happened at O'Hare Airport. 578 00:31:03,153 --> 00:31:05,072 That got a lot of media coverage. 579 00:31:05,072 --> 00:31:07,365 We were coming up on the ten-year anniversary for 580 00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:09,034 the Phoenix Lights case. 581 00:31:09,034 --> 00:31:11,036 That was getting a lot of coverage. 582 00:31:11,036 --> 00:31:13,622 And there seemed to be a whole new wave of interest in 583 00:31:13,622 --> 00:31:15,957 the media on the phenomenon. 584 00:31:15,957 --> 00:31:18,668 And I decided to kind of strike while the iron was hot. 585 00:31:18,668 --> 00:31:20,629 Ever since the Phoenix Lights case, 586 00:31:20,629 --> 00:31:23,381 I was meeting with the witnesses and I heard their frustration 587 00:31:23,381 --> 00:31:25,717 with how the governor treated their testimony, 588 00:31:25,717 --> 00:31:28,386 by making a mockery and ridiculing... 589 00:31:30,263 --> 00:31:34,226 So, in 2006, I managed to get a hold of Fife Symington, 590 00:31:34,226 --> 00:31:36,812 who was no longer governor of Arizona. 591 00:31:36,812 --> 00:31:38,355 He responded immediately and 592 00:31:38,355 --> 00:31:40,690 accepted my invitation for an interview. 593 00:31:40,690 --> 00:31:44,736 And, it ended up being one of those aha moments for me as a reporter. 594 00:31:44,736 --> 00:31:47,739 If you had to do it over again would 595 00:31:47,739 --> 00:31:49,741 you have done it any differently? 596 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:53,453 Ah, y'know, I think it was a legitimate, uh, uh, 597 00:31:53,453 --> 00:31:56,164 occurrence of unknown origin, 598 00:31:56,164 --> 00:31:59,084 probably one of the major sightings in, you know, 599 00:31:59,084 --> 00:32:00,502 in modern history in the country. 600 00:32:00,502 --> 00:32:02,295 'Cause a lot of people saw it in Maricopa County, 601 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:04,798 and I saw it too. So, I... 602 00:32:04,798 --> 00:32:06,383 "And I saw it too." 603 00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:11,596 Did I just hear that straight? 604 00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:13,223 Did the former governor of Arizona, 605 00:32:13,223 --> 00:32:16,184 who made fun of one of the most significant modern day 606 00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:20,272 mass sightings, just admit that he too was a witness? 607 00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:22,440 At least I have the opportunity now to correct the record. 608 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:23,900 And that's important. 609 00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,570 I knew I had captured lightning in a bottle. 610 00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:28,446 I really knew this was going to be big. 611 00:32:28,446 --> 00:32:31,199 So, I reached out to Leslie Kean and I said, 612 00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:32,826 "Hey, you're not going to believe this." 613 00:32:32,826 --> 00:32:34,369 I could not believe it. 614 00:32:34,369 --> 00:32:37,038 And my immediate response was, "I wanna break this story!" 615 00:32:38,999 --> 00:32:40,959 Leslie helped get that story out, 616 00:32:40,959 --> 00:32:43,128 and we got a lot of news coverage. 617 00:32:43,128 --> 00:32:44,588 If you'd been here ten years ago, 618 00:32:44,588 --> 00:32:46,965 standing out here and looking up there up the, um, 619 00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:50,218 at the lights and the view, um, you would have been astounded. 620 00:32:50,218 --> 00:32:51,553 You would have been amazed. 621 00:32:51,553 --> 00:32:55,432 And I suspect that, uh, unless, uh, uh, 622 00:32:55,432 --> 00:32:57,184 the Defense Department proves us otherwise that 623 00:32:57,184 --> 00:33:00,812 it was probably, uh, some form of an alien spacecraft. 624 00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:03,440 There was momentum that started to build. 625 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,859 And it was sort of a catalyst for us to feel, 626 00:33:05,859 --> 00:33:09,321 "Look at what's going on, let's do something really big 627 00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,406 that will draw attention to this." 628 00:33:12,115 --> 00:33:15,869 I joined forces with James Fox and we decided to bring together 629 00:33:15,869 --> 00:33:19,122 a panel of the very most credible witnesses from all over 630 00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:21,708 the world, to a major event in Washington, 631 00:33:21,708 --> 00:33:24,961 which would draw a new level of attention to incidences 632 00:33:24,961 --> 00:33:27,255 like the O'Hare event. 633 00:33:27,255 --> 00:33:30,258 We had scientists, generals, pilots 634 00:33:30,258 --> 00:33:34,054 both military and civilian, from multiple countries. 635 00:33:34,054 --> 00:33:36,598 Among them was Parviz Jafari, 636 00:33:36,598 --> 00:33:39,434 the Iranian pilot who had tried to shoot down a UFO, 637 00:33:39,434 --> 00:33:43,396 John Callahan from the Japan Airlines case... 638 00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:45,315 And the moderator of the event 639 00:33:45,315 --> 00:33:49,527 was former governor of, of Arizona, Fife Symington. 640 00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:51,780 He recognized that if there had been an agency 641 00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:54,866 in place when this event happened in 1997, 642 00:33:54,866 --> 00:33:56,618 everything would have been different. 643 00:33:56,618 --> 00:33:58,870 Leslie and I had wanted to see if we could set up 644 00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:02,165 a new government agency, a modern day Project Blue Book. 645 00:34:04,626 --> 00:34:06,127 I'd like to welcome you all, uh, here today. 646 00:34:06,127 --> 00:34:09,214 And I don't think there's ever been a more high-level 647 00:34:09,214 --> 00:34:11,007 or distinguished, uh, group. 648 00:34:11,007 --> 00:34:13,301 This event was the culmination of all the work 649 00:34:13,301 --> 00:34:16,388 I had done previously to bring everybody together 650 00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:18,348 in one room like that. 651 00:34:18,348 --> 00:34:20,850 Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. 652 00:34:21,476 --> 00:34:23,561 My name is Jean-Charles Duboc. 653 00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:25,981 I am a retired Air France captain. 654 00:34:27,274 --> 00:34:30,986 I am Rodrigo Bravo Captain and pilot of Chilean Army. 655 00:34:30,986 --> 00:34:33,363 What I'm to tell you, 656 00:34:33,363 --> 00:34:36,324 is about an event that never happened. 657 00:34:36,992 --> 00:34:39,953 The power of this was that you had all these people 658 00:34:39,953 --> 00:34:44,207 in one room telling their stories one after the other. 659 00:34:46,334 --> 00:34:49,004 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Oscar Santa Maria Huerta, 660 00:34:49,004 --> 00:34:51,006 official pilot of the Peruvian Air Force, 661 00:34:51,006 --> 00:34:52,632 currently retired. 662 00:34:52,632 --> 00:34:55,343 Oscar Santa Maria encountered a UFO over 663 00:34:55,343 --> 00:34:57,387 an air base in Peru. 664 00:34:57,387 --> 00:35:00,265 And he was instructed to go up and shoot it down. 665 00:35:01,474 --> 00:35:03,351 My unit commander ordered me to take off in 666 00:35:03,351 --> 00:35:07,022 my Sukhoi-22 jet to shoot down this spherical object. 667 00:35:07,022 --> 00:35:09,566 He said he unleashed all of his firepower, 668 00:35:09,566 --> 00:35:13,945 direct target hit, and it just absorbed his bullets. 669 00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:16,740 The cone-shaped wall of fire that I sent out would 670 00:35:16,740 --> 00:35:19,451 normally obliterate anything in its path. 671 00:35:21,077 --> 00:35:23,163 We also had Parviz Jafari, 672 00:35:23,163 --> 00:35:25,040 who talked about what happened to him. 673 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,918 I tried to launch a heat-seeker missile to it, 674 00:35:28,918 --> 00:35:32,422 but my missile panel went out. 675 00:35:33,131 --> 00:35:36,009 The momentum just kept building and building and building. 676 00:35:36,009 --> 00:35:40,305 Hundreds of people saw a majestic triangle craft. 677 00:35:40,305 --> 00:35:41,890 I have no idea what we saw that night, 678 00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:44,184 but I do know with great certainty it was 679 00:35:44,184 --> 00:35:46,144 under intelligent control. 680 00:35:46,853 --> 00:35:50,565 There's something very pragmatic about pilots, 681 00:35:50,565 --> 00:35:52,984 particularly military pilots. 682 00:35:52,984 --> 00:35:55,570 When you hear enough of those cases from around the world, 683 00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:58,823 I felt like the government had to pay attention. 684 00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:08,083 We want the United States government to 685 00:36:08,083 --> 00:36:12,670 stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away 686 00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:15,757 in down-to-earth and conventional terms. 687 00:36:15,757 --> 00:36:18,635 Instead, our country needs to reopen its 688 00:36:18,635 --> 00:36:22,472 official investigation that it shut down in 1969. 689 00:36:22,472 --> 00:36:26,101 We made the appeal at that press conference for 690 00:36:26,101 --> 00:36:28,186 a government agency to be set up. 691 00:36:28,186 --> 00:36:29,396 Do I look all right? 692 00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:30,772 Because my wife will yell at me if I don't. 693 00:36:32,482 --> 00:36:34,567 When it comes to events of this nature, 694 00:36:34,567 --> 00:36:38,279 dealing with the great unknown, we deserve, 695 00:36:38,279 --> 00:36:43,201 I believe, more openness and a serious pursuit of 696 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:45,495 the facts by our government. 697 00:36:45,495 --> 00:36:46,871 Thank you very much. 698 00:36:51,793 --> 00:36:55,130 That press conference was a moment for all of us, 699 00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:58,425 all of us who had been in the trenches for all those decades. 700 00:36:58,425 --> 00:36:59,968 It was a really satisfying moment. 701 00:36:59,968 --> 00:37:03,471 And we got some very mainstream coverage. 702 00:37:04,931 --> 00:37:06,808 A group gathering here in Washington to 703 00:37:06,808 --> 00:37:08,726 talk about their UFO sightings, 704 00:37:08,726 --> 00:37:11,271 but this apparently is no crackpot convention. 705 00:37:11,271 --> 00:37:14,023 Former high level government and military officials are amon 706 00:37:14,023 --> 00:37:17,610 those sharing what they've seen in the skies. 707 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:21,990 The press conference felt like a moment of huge success. 708 00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:23,575 But I had this fantasy, 709 00:37:23,575 --> 00:37:25,535 "Well, maybe this will lead to some kind of hearings on this." 710 00:37:25,535 --> 00:37:26,911 Nothing. 711 00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:29,497 Nobody in the government batted an eyelash. 712 00:37:29,497 --> 00:37:31,750 It didn't accomplish what we'd hoped for, 713 00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:35,128 which was to get our government engaging with it. 714 00:37:37,922 --> 00:37:39,924 I thought that the five minute presentations 715 00:37:39,924 --> 00:37:42,635 that these witnesses made simply weren't long enough to 716 00:37:42,635 --> 00:37:45,638 really get across what happened to them. 717 00:37:45,638 --> 00:37:49,058 So I was inspired to bring these people into a book. 718 00:37:50,143 --> 00:37:53,438 And they reported on their cases in their own words. 719 00:37:53,438 --> 00:37:55,148 They wrote their own chapters. 720 00:37:55,148 --> 00:37:57,609 I don't think all people at that level had ever come together 721 00:37:57,609 --> 00:37:59,652 under one umbrella before. 722 00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:01,613 And it had a lot of authority to it, 723 00:38:01,613 --> 00:38:03,448 not because of me, but because of the people 724 00:38:03,448 --> 00:38:05,325 I brought to the book. 725 00:38:05,325 --> 00:38:08,411 When it became a New York Times bestseller, 726 00:38:08,411 --> 00:38:11,790 I think it brought heightened credibility to the topic. 727 00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:13,333 Our next guest calling for 728 00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:16,461 a formal investigation of unidentified flying objects, 729 00:38:16,461 --> 00:38:17,962 Leslie Kean... 730 00:38:17,962 --> 00:38:19,380 And here to talk about UFO's, 731 00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:20,757 Leslie Kean. 732 00:38:20,757 --> 00:38:23,218 Please welcome Leslie Kean! 733 00:38:23,218 --> 00:38:24,219 Real generals? 734 00:38:24,219 --> 00:38:25,553 Real Generals. 735 00:38:25,553 --> 00:38:26,679 Or, like Captain Crunch? Like, real... 736 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:28,139 - Real... - Real... 737 00:38:28,139 --> 00:38:29,641 Honest to goodness generals. 738 00:38:29,641 --> 00:38:31,935 What generals think that there are aliens out there? 739 00:38:31,935 --> 00:38:33,478 They don't think there are aliens, 740 00:38:33,478 --> 00:38:35,605 and that's one of the points they all make in this book is 741 00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:37,398 we don't know what they are. 742 00:38:37,398 --> 00:38:38,483 - All right. - Thank you. 743 00:38:38,483 --> 00:38:39,776 Thank you so much. 744 00:38:39,776 --> 00:38:41,820 Leslie Kean! 745 00:38:43,071 --> 00:38:46,407 When I first read Leslie Kean's book I thought 746 00:38:46,407 --> 00:38:50,370 her investigation of this was exactly the kind of 747 00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:54,040 real science investigation that we should be thinking about 748 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,293 starting around unidentified flying objects. 749 00:38:58,002 --> 00:39:01,297 In fact, I had Leslie as a guest here at The Franklin Institute, 750 00:39:01,297 --> 00:39:04,175 to give a presentation about her book. 751 00:39:04,842 --> 00:39:09,222 We're about real science, we are not about speculation, 752 00:39:09,222 --> 00:39:13,017 and I felt that the work that Leslie demonstrated in her book 753 00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:15,937 was a responsible way to go about this. 754 00:39:16,479 --> 00:39:18,773 I wrote the forward to her book, 755 00:39:18,773 --> 00:39:22,026 which at the time people thought was just something to go 756 00:39:22,026 --> 00:39:25,780 on the shelf with the other UFOlogies, uh... 757 00:39:25,780 --> 00:39:28,199 But, uh, was really, I think, uh, 758 00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:32,161 a serious effort to try to document what pilots had seen, 759 00:39:32,161 --> 00:39:35,707 what other military senior leaders had documented. 760 00:39:36,457 --> 00:39:40,336 The success of the book brought so much credibility to this topic, 761 00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:44,632 and it drew people into my life that hadn't been there before, 762 00:39:44,632 --> 00:39:47,927 insiders who had been involved with this thing for a long time, 763 00:39:47,927 --> 00:39:50,597 some of them with security clearances. 764 00:39:50,597 --> 00:39:52,807 And they trusted me. 765 00:39:52,807 --> 00:39:55,935 That's what led to my being invited to a meeting, 766 00:39:55,935 --> 00:40:00,898 years later, where I was handed the biggest scoop of my career. 767 00:40:03,151 --> 00:40:04,569 Leslie Kean 768 00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:06,613 one of the investigative reporters who broke this story. 769 00:40:06,613 --> 00:40:08,615 This report is stunning. 770 00:40:08,615 --> 00:40:10,199 The New York Times breaking 771 00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:11,743 the news that the Pentagon has been secretly researching 772 00:40:11,743 --> 00:40:14,912 the existence of UFOs. 773 00:40:14,912 --> 00:40:16,789 Apparently, the Department of Defense launched 774 00:40:16,789 --> 00:40:19,250 the program in 2007. 775 00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:23,254 2007, the same year that we gave our press conference. 776 00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:26,674 It just so happened that this Government program was 777 00:40:26,674 --> 00:40:28,468 already being set up. 778 00:40:28,468 --> 00:40:30,345 We didn't know about that at the time, 779 00:40:30,345 --> 00:40:32,764 of course, but it was actually happening. 780 00:40:33,598 --> 00:40:35,642 The article was a huge moment, 781 00:40:35,642 --> 00:40:37,185 a moment I'll never forget. 782 00:40:37,185 --> 00:40:40,980 I had friends and family from all around the world going, 783 00:40:42,065 --> 00:40:44,609 "Oh my God, maybe you we're right. 784 00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:47,654 Maybe you, maybe you're not as crazy as I thought you were." 785 00:40:47,654 --> 00:40:48,821 You know? 786 00:40:48,821 --> 00:40:50,365 It was, it was a good feeling. 787 00:40:50,365 --> 00:40:52,742 I was really proud of Leslie because the rest of the world 788 00:40:52,742 --> 00:40:54,577 was paying attention. 789 00:40:54,577 --> 00:40:57,664 That maybe, maybe there is really something going on here. 790 00:40:58,915 --> 00:41:01,084 That article was really just the beginning. 791 00:41:01,084 --> 00:41:04,962 It opened the door to all these questions that arose after that 792 00:41:04,962 --> 00:41:08,883 about what this program actually had learned about UFOs. 793 00:41:08,883 --> 00:41:12,053 Is it going to release information to the public? 794 00:41:12,053 --> 00:41:14,472 All these questions that people wanna know about UFOs. 795 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:17,600 Well, if there's a program, what do they know? 796 00:41:18,351 --> 00:41:21,396 Imagine just how wonderful it would be to have those 797 00:41:21,396 --> 00:41:24,107 questions asked on behalf of the American people. 798 00:41:24,107 --> 00:41:27,610 Today we will bring that organization out of the shadows. 799 00:41:31,364 --> 00:41:33,700 I think for, for far too long people have said, 800 00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:36,828 "Oh, the public isn't ready to know about these things, 801 00:41:36,828 --> 00:41:38,496 but I think the public is ready, 802 00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:40,373 now more than ever." 803 00:41:41,249 --> 00:41:43,626 We were seeing things off the coast every day. 804 00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:45,545 The pilots know what they are seeing. 805 00:41:45,545 --> 00:41:47,046 They are not crazy. 806 00:41:47,046 --> 00:41:48,256 You just have to realize 807 00:41:48,256 --> 00:41:49,674 that it's using a kind of 808 00:41:49,674 --> 00:41:50,675 technology that we 809 00:41:50,675 --> 00:41:51,718 don't understand. 810 00:41:51,718 --> 00:41:53,094 One of these objects happen 811 00:41:53,094 --> 00:41:55,054 to be from another civilization. 812 00:41:55,054 --> 00:41:56,389 That would change 813 00:41:56,389 --> 00:41:57,890 the future of humanity. 814 00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:58,933 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.